meet the 90s:
MEET TODD WILLIAMS
At this point in the game he might be getting sick of being introduced on all these various runner sites as the guy who still holds on to the American 15K record.
He’s held it for 14 years.
The time: 42:22.
Yes, 42:22. That’s an average of repeat 4:32 miles for 9.32 miles.
That’s pretty fast. No American’s done it since
Williams is famous for leaving nothing on the table--in practice and on the roads. He did killer, now-famous track workouts and has always been a believer in pushing the pace. No surprise then that he admires Pre--that classic gutsy frontrunner guy who’s image we all like to plaster on our wall in front of the treadmill.
Williams is a two-time Olympian and a top-ten finisher at World Cross.
After retiring from the sport in 2003, Williams moved on from the running side of adidas to keeping his relationship alive as the running specialty sales rep. for adidas, managing their Florida and Georgia territory. He sells very nice shoes like these:
RML: We’ve gone 13 years without any American running under 13 minutes for 5,000m. And then in a matter of weeks, we get two guys who make it happen. What’s your take on that?
Williams: I think it’s a trend. Starting with back when Bob [Kennedy] set the 12:58, some of these guys like Ritz, Teg, Hall, Webb, and Meb started looking at that as if it were a possibility. And let’s not forget Lagat who has been running for this country and medalling along the way It was always a goal and it’s just taken 13 years. I think the talent was there when they were all younger. It just happened to be 2009. I think the potential has been there for a couple of years for a Teg, Ritz, and a Webb to break 13 and they finally got in a situation where the timing was right and the fitness was there. It was just a matter of taking advantage of the situation.
RML: Ritz did it kind of as a surprise and then Teg—someone who’d been targeting doing it for years—made it happen. Do you think Teg did it because he saw Ritz do it? Were there ever times during your career where seeing a competitor take it to a new level made you come along and have a breakthrough?
Williams: I always try to look at Bob [Kennedy]. Even though Bob was more mile, 5K, and up runner and I was more 10K and up, I remember the summer of 1994, when Bob dropped it [his 5,000-meter PR] from 13:14 to 13:02. I was injured at the time. When Bob dropped it by that big chunk, I was like, “If he can get it down there, then I should be able to get it that close.” As far as the parallel goes, I’m pretty sure Teg has always been pushing for it and I think when he saw Ritz do it, it probably threw that little bit of fire when he was in the last 1,000 meters where he probably said, “Oh hell no. I got to dig down to a gear that I’ve never had before to try and get that record.” Now it’s going to come down to the point where every day in training, Teg is saying, “That’s my record.” I can see where that’s going to be an extra motivator. Also, in saying that, I think Ritz, Hall, Tegenkamp and some of the other guys running around at a high level are so motivated, you could put them in the middle of nowhere and they are going to nail one.
RML: When I last talked with you, you gave me some crazy sample workouts that you did back in the day—things like mile repeats at 4:12-4:16 with 4:00 recovery. A lot of these guys are feeding off each other. Since you were at the top of the pile and didn’t really have that much around you to push the pace, was it pretty much a one-man show during these workouts?
Williams: It was a one-man show. Back when I was doing those in-and-outs for 5K at 13:38, I was doing them solo. In my build-up, I would use university guys for 10 x 1000m and give them a 5-second head start.
RML: And catch them right?
Williams: Catch them as fast as possible, hit oxygen debt, and then just cruise. Still, even though I was alone for a lot of it, I wouldn’t go back and change anything. A lot of people asked me if I would go train at altitude or train in a group situation. I wouldn’t, because that was just my makeup. I liked where I was at when I was at the University of Tennesse training under, I liked running under the guidance of Doug Brown and George Watts. That’s what I needed to do to run 13:19 [5K], 27:31 [10K], and 2:11 [marathon]. As far as the current state, I think it helps these guys. They feed off each other. The times are put on the board where they don’t think of them as unattainable anymore. They just go do it.
RML: Funny that some people second-guessed your methods and yet you still have the 15K record.
Williams: I wouldn’t say it was second-guessing me. I think they are asking if I would have done some of those things, would my times be better. The only time in my career I think I could have run faster is maybe the 5K. But I was maxed out. Now that I am old and washed-up, that’s what I want all these guys doing. When Tegenkamp finishes, when Ritz finishes, they want to say that they did everything possible.
RML: Leave no stone unturned, right?
Yeah, I think the way these guys are running, I think they are going to be able to say that.
RML: Your 15K record has been around since 1995. Is it in jeopardy now that you’ve got this core group of guys you mentioned who are gunning for these records and taking it to a new level?
Williams: It’s all going to be a timing thing. What’s going to happen is the 15K is such an odd distance. I was running the best year of my career in 1995 and I kind of peaked for it when I ran 42:22 and then was 9th at World Cross, which, in the mid-1990s, there was a lot of serious stuff going on around the world in the mid-1990s. 12:36, Daniel Komen running 7:20 [3000m]. A lot of these guys were at the top of their game. So for me to go from 42:22 to top 10 in world cross, I actually focused on that. So if Ryan Hall or Ritz, or Teg, or Meb or Abdi or Rupp focus on it, they could definitely get it.
RML: So Gate River is the place to do it then?
Williams: Don’t forget that you have Gasparilla. That can be flat and fast if the wind isn’t coming off the bay. The Gate River Run, you have to have perfect conditions as well. It’s a pretty tough course. On the day that I ran the record, it was ideal, 100% conditions. I don’t think the conditions have been like that since I ran the race. Look, I’m not naïve or stupid. These guys that are running now are at a new level. I’m glad to see it. To see Ritz running down some of the people that he was running down when he ran 12:56, I love it. Number one, he’s a Michigan man. And number two: I want to see American distance running get to the point when everyone stops asking that question of when are we going to be able to beat the Kenyans. I want that to be over.
RML: It’s a whole new mental outlook isn’t it?
Williams: Yes. I still get people that come up to me and ask me, “Why can’t the Americans keep up with these guys?” And I say, “Look, we are right there. Over the last five years, both the men and the women have put up some really good times.” These times are overlooked, because if you don’t win a gold medal, it’s not good enough for the running public. If you have an educated eye, you can see what’s going on. We’ve jumped to a whole new level in the masses of American distance running. Our top 10 in each event, on average is right up there with the best of the world.
RML: We are fielding one of the best half-marathon squads for both the men’s and women’s teams in a very long time, and, from what I heard, a lot of members of the press were absent at the USATF conference call yesterday. If this were a more popular sport, like, say, football, you know the sporting press would attend a conference chaired by, oh I don’t know, say the NFL. Two part question: First, do you think that American running is not getting the press it deserves now that we seem to be stepping it up in the world? Second, do you think the mainstream running press has migrated away from elite coverage to the recreational side of it, because there are more four-hour marathoners with disposable income focusing on themselves than there are people who care if the U.S. wins the half-marathon title?
Williams: I think that’s a trend that happens. In the 70s and early 80s, we had the Bills [Rodgers] and the Franks [Shorter], and the Salazars and the Greg Meyers. And let’s not forget the women too with Joan Benoit-Samuelson and Lynn Jennings. We had some real personalities in the sport. And not only were they personalities, but also these guys were winning races and they started the boom. Frank won the Olympic gold. Alberto won major marathons. The media could attach themselves to that, because these guys were winners. Nowadays we are winning a few things, but in the late 80s and 90s, the running media definitely pulled away from the elite side to the run-walk-finish-a-marathon side--more of the general runner-side. Now I’m not saying that that’s a bad thing, because at least 90% of the big races across the country are growing by leaps and bounds as far as numbers go. Hopefully we’ll get back to that point now that we’ve got the Ryan Halls and the Dathan Ritzenheins and some of the coaches like [Terrence] Mahon and [Brad] Hudson—guys who are getting out there. And let’s not forget, some of the agents have got to be responsible for this—to get running out of that second-tier sport. So it’s a responsibility for everyone. And as you know, running is not like basketball or boxing—the mainstream sports—most runners like to quietly do their thing. They aren’t going to be yelling and screaming when they come across the line, because it is a really humbling sport. You just don’t get that crazy personality. Hopefully the performances that these guys are putting out can start to force the media to put them in the mainstream.
RML: The U.S. loves to throw technology at its problems. Take for instance the Oregon Distance Project with their altitude house and the Alter-G treadmill. We seem to have teams of high-paid scientists, psychologists, physiologists, and nutritionists following our top athletes around, monitoring their every move, telling them what to do, how to eat, and putting them under all these tests and experiments that are supposed to equalize the U.S. with the rest of the world. And then you look at the poorer countries across the globe, like in East Africa for instance, where you got a guy in a tracksuit running on a dusty road being followed by his coach who’s pedaling a rickety bicycle timing the workout with a 100-year-old stopwatch that has to be occasionally banged a few times. And that guy wins a gold off of that crazy simplicity. So how much of an equalizer is all this science? Does it really matter? Is it really helping the U.S. catch up with the rest of the world, or is it not really doing anything other than fueling an industry of scientists?
Williams: The example that comes to mind there is a Rupp. You know, I don’t know what Alberto is doing. I know Alberto, but I’ve never had the chance to go out and watch the day-in and day-out activities that Galen goes through with his training system. But I believe if you took Rupp out to the middle of Siberia with nothing but a cabin, a little track, and dumbbells, I think he’s going to run just as fast. But again, I think it’s the process in the athlete’s minds. They think if their coach tells them this is what they have to do—and let’s not forget, most of these runners are type-A to the max—they will do it. If their coach tells them to run through a brick wall and that’s how they will get to a sub-13, they will run through the brick wall. I think technology does help, but it’s really the belief system in the program that you are in. Galen Rupp believes in Alberto. Meb [Keflezighi]and Jen [Rhines] and Scottie Baughs: They believe in Terrence. You match up the talent, desire, and work ethic in those groups you are going to see great results. Personally, what I think helps these runners is the access to see what other runners are doing---real time. Runners can say, “He did that? I’m going to go kick his ass.” When I was running, we had to wait for the Harrier magazine. It was like four weeks!
RML: That’s a really good point. So you are saying the speed of information nowadays helps us learn from or compete with each other. Like you said, back then you had to know someone who watched a competitor’s workout and call them to figure out what they were doing.
Williams: Yep. Nowadays, you got Letsrun, Flotrack, Twitter, and message boards to tell you the very moment that something happened.
RML: There’s this whole line of thinking out there that there are two types of runners: the “blue-collar” runners and the “yuppie” runners. In case you haven’t heard this terminology before, a “blue-collar runner” would be someone like Brian Sell who runs over a 10-minute two mile in high school and works his way into the Olympics after an enormous amount of hard work—a grinder would be another term for these kind of guys, I guess. And then you got the folks who are just naturally talented---the Halls and the Webbs. At what point can you use your mind to accomplish anything you set out to do in distance running by throwing pure work at it and at what point do you bump up against the impassible wall where natural ability trumps that “blue-collar” work ethic?
Williams: I hate to say this, because I don’t believe in caps where you can only run this fast no matter how hard you work, because I always believe there is another second in someone, but I do believe that genetics plays a role. Certain people have tools and certain people don’t. I would consider Ritz or Solinsky as the perfect combination of natural talent and hard work—people where incredible work ethic meets incredible pain tolerance. If you watch Ritz run, he doesn’t look like your Ryan Hall. I watched Ryan Hall on Sunday in Philly and he just looks like the definition of the perfect runner. Or watch Bekele, the guy looks like the perfect runner. Ritz is a guy who runs like every day is his last day. I think the success for any distance runner is maximizing what they have. If you are a 16-minute guy, you have to figure out how to get to 15:45. And the magic there is just hard work and staying healthy. And when you get to 15:45, you tell yourself that you can get to 15:30. And then again, you got to work hard and adjust your training a little bit; you got to stay healthy. For me, it was running 70-second laps for the 10K was my first goal. I then told myself I had to get to 69. And then 28:20 was 68 per lap. And 67 is 27:55; 66 is 27:30. And then my legs fell off. If 75s is the same pain, it doesn’t matter. If you are really pushing yourself, there’s no difference in Ritz’s pain at 12:56 and someone else’s pain at 14:56.
RML: You’re like a black belt now, right?
Williams: Brazilian jujitsu is the martial art that I’ve been killing myself in the last six and half years. It’s a very difficult discipline to get the black belt in. No. I’m not a black belt. I have four stripes on my purple belt.
RML: Were you doing any of this when you were running?
Williams: No way. I retired from running in January, 2003 and I started jujitsu in April of that year.
RML: Has the mental discipline you learned in running helped you with your martial arts?
Williams: Some people look at me like I’m crazy, because I got a cauliflower ear. Jujitsu is a wrestling art. It’s more grappling-based. I didn’t take it, because I wanted to be an ass kicker; I took it, because I wanted something else in my life that could fill the void of the competitive side of me that was outside the job I had in sales and marketing with Adidas. As far as the drive, it’s been awesome. It’s been a great replacement, because I started in a lower level. I didn’t know anything, just like I didn’t know anything about running when I started out.
RML: Do you feel the same level of goal-setting with jujitsu that you had with running?
Williams: Yes. A black belt in jujitsu is one of the most difficult martial arts to get the black belt in. It’s probably going to take me 8 to 9 years of consistent training to obtain the master level in this art. But it’s more the day-to-day fitness of it. But hey, just don’t bump me on the street. [He laughs.]
RML: Man, I’m staying away from you. I usually tell people that I’ll never get my ass kicked in a bar fight, because I’m weak, but I can just run away from the person for a long period of time until they tire out. But with you, you could kick my ass and run me down. Not good.
Williams: [laughing] That’s what the guys in my jujitsu school say. Even at 40 years old, I still have a pretty good gas tank. I’m hyper. We spar five times for ten minutes with one minute of recovery. My gas is still pretty decent from my running days. Still, people ask me why I picked this art after running. Hey, you got to have something. Some people pick guitar, some people pick golf, and I just happened to pick jujitsu as my new hobby.
